The Voiceover...

topic posted Mon, February 2, 2004 - 1:39 PM by  Unsubscribed
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Obviously it is "cooler" to prefer the non-voiceover version of bladerunner, but dammit, I saw it first with the voiceover when I saw BR at a drive-in theater when I was 12 back in '82, and that is how I first loved the film. It seemed to me to be an homage to the '40s-'50s crime noir detective films... existing peacefully alongside the action on screen. The ridley scott director's cut is fine as well, with a different set of strengths and weaknesses, but not necessarily "better." what say you all?



PS...
I think the consumer is led to believe that the original version of a film released in theaters will never be as good as the "director's cut" that will inevitably come out on DVD. The cynic in me sees this as the logical progression of marketing tactics to increase film profits, by leading us into this cycle of paying repeatedly for viewing the same film. This may be fodder for another discussion elsewhere though.
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  • actually, around that age, i liked the voice over too, but now i think i can actually hear harrison ford doing a deliberately bad job in the hopes they'd change their minds about it. it was such a tacked-on concession after the original screening debacles...and it sounds like a concession whenever i hear it.

    it's not an inherently bad idea, just poorly written and read IMO. i think the studio just totally panicked at the thought of losing money on it because the average joe schmoe wouldn't get it.

    and yeah, they're leading us big time with all this dvd marketing, but i've seen ridley talking about the latest version with a really sincere gleam in his eye. i want it.
  • Well, I'm with you. I _LIKE_ the voice over. Ford DID do a bad job on it intentionaly from my understanding, but it makes it seem that much more fitting for the Sam Spade/Noire feel that it gave.

    I would love for them to just add another audio track that has the narration. That would be fine by me, as far as the directors cut goes.

    As far as the directors cut business, it depends on the film, and on the director. I can see how Ridly would have had to make a lot of sacrifices from his artistic vision to get his movies out, and now with DVD he sees a chance to show his films more as he invisioned them. I dont see a reason for a directors cut for movies like Dude, Wheres My Car, however.
    • like i said in another thread. we need some selfless soul (i volunteer, but i really dont care if its me, so long as it gets done) to use the seamless branching function in the DVD standard to produce a bootleg dvd image that contains both the original theatrical version (with voiceover and happy ending) and the directors cut (without voiceover, with cut scenes e.g. unicorn). it can be done, i dont know why someone hasnt already.
  • dd
    dd
    offline 13
    I also saw it first with the voiceover, and have seen it without. I like both versions. I agree the voiceover gave it a noir detective film feel.
    • Unsu...
       
      It's not about it being "cooler" to like the non-voiceover version, it simply is less invasive to the viewer. A voiceover serves a very trite purpose in that it conveys a message between singular characters and a viewer. In this purpose, it is a thin line between expressive and pushy. Much like Cliff Martinez' comments on his Traffic and Sex, Lies, and Video Tape compositions, it is somehow more soulful to leave the emotional interpretation of a film to the audience's psyche rather than lead the audience to an emotional conclusion via musical motif or other tools of film (such as a voiceover which explicitly conveys a character's emotion).

      Ridley Scott, on the director's cut tip, could have taken the European (Director's) Cut of Legend and stuck it inside of a Walrus' ass and waited for it to disipate into nothingness for all I'm concerned, because it is complete suckage.

      However, the Bladerunner special edition is the shit.

      In my completely humility absent opinion.
      • Unsu...
         
        I disagree... it *is* "cooler" to prefer the director's cut, though that does not invalidate any other take on the inherent worth of mr. scott's revised version. The story is markedly different between the two edits, and whether or not you feel "intruded" upon when hearing the voiceover, they fulfill different objectives. I find it fairly ironic that the less invasive non-dialogue version which supposedly leaves emotional interpretation up to the viewer is the one that strong-arms you into the assumption that deckard is a replicant. I think scott has the right to offer his improved version, but his reasoning leaves me a bit cold. et tu, ridley?

        Now, if you are of the opinion that voice-over is an inherently awkward narrative device, then I would say your analysis is well and good... but I feel there is more here than meets the eye (or ear), especially considering that Blade Runner is more than the sum of it's parts... ridley may have been the catalyst for it's development, but at a certain juncture, BR developed it's own meaning and importance, hence the cult-status it has developed and maintained, and thusly allowing the very existence of a Special Edition Directors Cut.

        I agree that the Bladerunner special edition is the shit, but it cannot stand alone without it's predecessor, as the two are inextricably linked.
  • dislike the voiceover. It was fine for a first viewing and introduction to the story, but the story is much more interesting and challenging less the voiceover.
    • Unsu...
       
      I agree, however, I appreciate the cult status section of the argument. I appreciate the acceptance of an underground following, but cinematically, I stick by my intuition, in that I feel that voice overs are a precarious (not inherently aweful by any means) way of expressing character emotion.

      I also don't feel that it's implicitly undeniable on Deckard's Replicantism from a neutral viewing standpoint. I think it takes a deep understanding of the story to really even understand the Deckard as a Skin Job theosis in the Director's cut. A less understanded viewer might not make the difinite conclusion that Deckard IS undeniably a Replicant, in fact, a completely versed viewer may still be opposed to the definitive decision that they witnessed Deckard as a Replicant. I may also assert tha one may feel as though Replicant vs. Human on the Deckard front is less important than Human vs. Replicant on the Replicant front, that a replicant is any less human as a human is replicant in the first place, given that it seems as though the definition of 'Retirement' in its entire ethical makeup is at question, mainly in the foredrawn conclusion that Replicants are retired and are not allowed in average society due to character flaws inherently designed into their genetic codes, as a maker of humans has apparently done.

      I do not believe that a film can be assertained completely based upon the whole of it's parts in watching it, in that, I don't feel like you need to have an indepth, or any for that matter, understanding of the BOOK Fight Club to get the deepest of cinematic motivations and uasages in the MOVIE Fight Club, as they are separate in media, and from a viewers standpoint comletely irrelevant from one another.
    • The voiceover was tacked on by the studio, who were nervous. Neither Hampton Fancher (orginal screenwriter) nor David Peoples (rewriter) knew that it was afoot.

      The VO bothers me because of several reasons:

      a) It explains to us what we are already watching (telling, not showing), which is redundant ("All I could do was sit there and watch him die..."). Good voiceover is used as counterpoint to action, not as a parallel track that reiterates the action.
      b) It humanizes Deckard too soon, when we are meant to see him as a burnt-out husk of a man who is later "re-humanized," ironically, by a machine (Rachael).
      c) It sounds fucking stupid in places ("Sushi. That's what my ex-wife used to call me.")
      d) None of the creators of the film wanted it added.
      e) It interrupts the beautiful stillness of the film with blathering nonsense, when silence is called for.
      f) It assumes that the audience is too stupid to figure out on their own what they are seeing.

      Viva la Director's Cut!
      • I don't know who wrote the voiceover narration if H Fancher and D. Peoples didn't. Anyone have some insight?
        • Paul Sammon's excellent book, "Future Noir," an exhaustive overview of the making of "Blade Runner," goes into great detail about the screenwriting process of the film, including its various drafts, rewrites, and the last-minute addition of the infamous voiceover. On pages 297-298, he writes:

          "…shortly after the Denver and Dallas sneaks, Harrison Ford, Bud Yorkin, and Kathy Haber gathered together in a small Beverly Hills studio to record the third attempt at a Blade Runner narration. Joining the trio was Roland Kibbee (since deceased), a television writer and friend of Yorkin's who was primarily responsible for writing this third attempt. Kibbee created his version of the voice-over by stitching together his own input with selections from previous narrations written by those who'd gone before him.

          "Bud Yorkin supervised that session," Haber continues, "and Harrison hated it. He hadn't wanted to do the voice-overs in the first place, and by now I think he was sick of the whole movie anyway. Harrison also didn't like what Kibbee had come up with. So he purposefully, I think, recited that narration very badly. I think he was hoping they wouldn't be able to use it. And of course they did—that third narration was the one they released with the finished film."
  • It's funny, I was recently thinking about how I've never seen the voiceover version since I originally saw the release in a theater. I'd like to see it again in order to compare it to the version without it more readily, though I think the movie works just fine without the voiceover.

    I know I saw the Director's Cut, but when I turned on the television just in time to catch "Bladerunner" again some time last year, I didn't remember the differences. I've enjoyed them all.

    Guess I'll need to see if they have a boxed set with all versions like they do with "Brazil".
    • I knew Hampton Fancher pretty well. He was furious at the voiceover and that Michael Deely and Ridley Scott didn't fight against it harder.
      • When I interviewed Fancher (a really nice and funny guy), he had this to say about the voiceover:

        "[David Peoples and I have] been very close friends since then. In fact—I guess you know all the stories—it was pretty funny me thinking…I admire his work but I couldn't imagine how he was stupid enough to write those voiceovers; and he was imagining the same thing about me. After a year, one night we were drunk, and I said, “Man, what’s wrong with you? Why did you write that stupid shit?” And he said, “I thought you did."
    • The thing with the voiceover in the original version (which I am so happy to have actually found a VHS copy of last year - yay!) is that it meshes perfectly with the film-noir-redux aspect of the film. I suspect that those voiceovers in the forties and fifties might well have had the same origins - bringing the slower viewers up to speed as the plot gets more twisted. At any rate, I loved it at first viewing in '82 and still do, not least becuase of the retro-noir aesthetic over the future-apocalypse concept.

      And I have to note in response to someone above who was opining on the degree to which interpretation is left to the viewer - I don't think this is a valid argument. Most of the interpretive questions about Blade Runner - was Decker a replicant etc? were in play well before the Director's Cut surfaced. I could similarly go on at lenght about audience response theory etc and how there is ALWAYS an open-interpretation option, chance to read / view against grain, read between the lines etc... but I'm sure most see where I'm going with it.

      Cheers.
      • I saw it with first, but upon deeper thought, I prefer without. For one, in the director's cut you come to realize that Deckard isn't the Blade Runner at all. He's just another pawn. The real blade runner is Gant. He's just using the replicant known as Deckard as a cat's paw. Why do you think Deckard's never taken the Voigt-Kampf? That happy ending thing is horseshit. However, I'd be very curious to know if the next Tyrrel model has a four-year life-span, and who is actually running the company now.

        "It's too bad she won't live. But then again...who does?"
        • The voice over made me cringe the first time I saw it, big corny factor, and it seemed like a tacked on after thought made by some coke freak executive who demanded more exposition...thank god it was excised.
          • I've never actually seen Bladerunner with the voiceover.
            What am I missing?
            • Not much, but it's interesting to see nonetheless....but there's another beef I have. Instead of getting a Special Edition Bladerunner with BOTH the theatrical version and the directors cut with goodies...we get a SECOND edition of Gladiator! I like Gladiator as well, but I wish they had put out a decent Bladerunner Special Edition DVD instead.


              nuts!
              • indeed! i would love to see a Criterion edition.
                • Personally I feel the voice-over makes the movie.. like an old film noir style detective flick... I am extremely upset that there is no voice-over on the DVD I have.. you miss half the movie without the v-o.. and after having seen it in the theatre that way I feel ripped off that it's impossible to get a copy with it.. I mean what, it woulda killed em to put it in the case with the other one
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
                    I agree with Gunnar... I prefer the voice over... it has to do with the tone of the film...
                    • I know why they tacked the voice over on there, to tie it in with the film noir tradition. He was trying to sound jaded and hard boiled. Well, he just sounded bored and on tranquilizers. And the voice over dialogue was extremely badly written. "Sushi, thats what my ex wife called me...dead fish". Ugh. I would like to see the theatrical version again anyway.
                      • I gotta admit he did sound bored or on tranqs.. but I feel it makes it work because he has survived what he has and still come out on the other side whole.. he should sound like he beaten.. he's been through alot, and now he may be hunted.. I would have loved to see a sequel.. I need to get the book I guess
                        • I saw it when it first came out - so I am a fan of both and I own both versions. It's nice to have a choice.
                          • Love the voiceover. Saw the original theatrical release in the theater and have seen it many times since. I agree about harkening back to film noir. Thankfully, I have both cuts. Generally I am a much stronger advocate for any director's cut.

                            I've heard one of the reasons that Harrison is so pissy in the voiceover is that he didn't get paid to do it. That kind of makes sense, but it also brings some gravity to the voiceover. Deckard is pretty angry and pissed off and the vo reflects it.

                            And as for a sense of authenticity, one of the most quotes lines in the film is scripted. It's not in the PKD work -- "I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. Time to die."

                            To each their own...
                            • >>And as for a sense of authenticity, one of the most quotes lines in the film is scripted. It's not in the PKD work -- "I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.

                              It's not in the script. Rutger Hauer wrote that gorgeous speech himself shortly before shooting it. It's a good example of adding something that wasn't there before, rather than the bad, half-assed example of the voiceover, which was not penned by either of the main screenwriters (Fancher and Peoples), and breaks the cardinal rule of telling instead of showing. It's sad, laughable writing, filled with sophomoric, awkward lines like "Sushi. That's what my ex-wife called me. Cold fish." It debases everything good about old film noir voiceover. I hate it.

                              For a great example of the real thing, go back and watch "Double Indemnity," which features some of the best voiceover ever, and you'll see why the BR voiceover is a joke.
                              • >>It's not in the script. Rutger Hauer wrote that gorgeous speech himself shortly before shooting it.

                                yep. for me that is the defining moment of the film, and for that to have been basically improvised... Mucho props!
  • Ruby

    09/21
    Ruby was the name of a contemporary "galactic gumshoe" radio play. I never owned it or heard it live on the radio. My friend played it for me in about 1984. But I'm pretty sure it pre-dates Bladerunner. Might have been late 70's even. Being a radio play, Ruby also used the narated first-person format and was fed by a "future-nostalgia" blend of sci-fi and Bogart.

    So the 40's detective narated format was part of that trend. Then later it became cool to can the trendy 80's part of the movie. But the 80's are back.

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